(You have to click on it to see the whole thing)
Monday, April 26, 2010
New map
Here's an updated version. This is the Northern Hemisphere only:
(You have to click on it to see the whole thing)
(You have to click on it to see the whole thing)
Monday, April 19, 2010
You are a d4: You are bright, perceptive, and driven. You would be considered a blessing to mankind, if you didn't insist on using your powers for evil. You are devious, deceitful, doubtful, and downright dangerous. Assassins can learn a lot from you. If your fellow party members knew how rotten you were, they'd go over and join the bad guys. Justified or not, you are meticulous in your ways: A poison for every person, and a dagger for every back. Much of your day is spent scheming or plotting. The rest of your time is spent trying to convince others that you're simply misunderstood.
From: http://dicepool.com/quiz/info_8.html
Wednesday, April 14, 2010
Wednesday, April 7, 2010
The Immortals
As mentioned in previous posts, I plan for my campaign world to feature three original races, each immortal (in the "don't die of old age" sense, not the "impossible to kill" sense).
Let me throw down what I had going last time, and I'm more then open to pitches for replacements or improvements.
Elodrian:
Imagine 7'-8' tall elven looking creatures. Frail in appearance, yet highly intelligent and devastatingly organized. The Elodrian are the ancestors of elves and drow alike. Lawful to the core, they progress slowly, methodically, and ALWAYS with a plan. Some Elodiran-type imagery:
The Minotaurs are my creatures of Neutrality. They are nature untamed, a primal connection with the earth and wilderness. Rangers and Shamans, and dabblers in ancient forgotten lores, except 10'-12' tall and wielding axes. Most take a "I have forever, I can take my time and debate my options" approach, but the ones who drift towards good or evil tend to be incredible enemies to their foes. My type of Minotaurs:
Lastly, my Gith are creatures of absolute Chaos. Individually powerful, yet insanely incapable of working together for any length of time. The Gith are fearsome, unpredictable creatures. Those that tend towards evil offer the most terrifying nightmare known to man. My Gith:
So, if you're playing in this world, what do you think?
Let me throw down what I had going last time, and I'm more then open to pitches for replacements or improvements.
Elodrian:
Imagine 7'-8' tall elven looking creatures. Frail in appearance, yet highly intelligent and devastatingly organized. The Elodrian are the ancestors of elves and drow alike. Lawful to the core, they progress slowly, methodically, and ALWAYS with a plan. Some Elodiran-type imagery:
The Minotaurs are my creatures of Neutrality. They are nature untamed, a primal connection with the earth and wilderness. Rangers and Shamans, and dabblers in ancient forgotten lores, except 10'-12' tall and wielding axes. Most take a "I have forever, I can take my time and debate my options" approach, but the ones who drift towards good or evil tend to be incredible enemies to their foes. My type of Minotaurs:
Lastly, my Gith are creatures of absolute Chaos. Individually powerful, yet insanely incapable of working together for any length of time. The Gith are fearsome, unpredictable creatures. Those that tend towards evil offer the most terrifying nightmare known to man. My Gith:
So, if you're playing in this world, what do you think?
Additional Tidbits
I've gotten some more commentary (via e-mail and other forums), and again, I'll throw it up here for all to read:
From Raptor:
The role of the planes in D&D is to allow for a format that could significantly change the rules without altering the basic set of rules that everything and everyone must abide by (the prime material plane). By level 12 or so, you are getting bored of the rules and need to change things up a little. If a croup walks into the room and fireballs out the bad guys, in order to force them out of the box, you take them to a place where fireball doesn't work. If you want to have unspeakably powerful and evil villains that just show up without having to deal with the fact that they would completely unbalance the PMP just by being on it, you can do that. For instance, if all powerful devils and demons exist, why haven't they eradicated the PMP? Answer: they are too busy being at war with each other. It's contained. A conflict that big in the PMP would be world changing, but with planes, you can take and leave it in adventure sized pieces.
Again though this is the function of zones. If these magical beings are anchored to a thing in a place, they can coexist in the pmp without affecting it too much. If all devils are linked to the Court Stone of Evil, and moving too far away from it's influence weakens them to the point that the lesser gods will pick them off easily, they are also containable, even with epic power levels.
In a play scenario, it gives the storyteller/DM a lot of flexibility to scale the power level of the usually extraplanar foes, because by placing the foe closer or further from their power source, they can be more powerful or less powerful as the party power demands, and the foe can be scaled up merely by moving them further into their zone. This is better, I think that merely having planes because it's not an all or nothing "you're playing in their back yard, so they rule, or your back yard so you rule" situation.
Picture an adventure for a level 7 party. You go into a small town and uncover a Devil trading the local townsfolk as slaves. The party fights him in a weakened state, and relatively easily drives him off. They pursue, and he gets closer to his zone, and gains power. They fight him again, and he's much tougher. They drive him off again, soon he's well within his zone, and more powerful than the party. The party realizes that in order to fight the foes, they have to think about not just how to fight, but also choosing the battleground as well. You can also make the zones of power have distorting effects on magic, or divine spellcasting. The key is to maintain the flexibility without having to enforce hard and fast planar rules all the time.
For your epic world events, one side could attack the center of power for another side to attempt to wipe them from the plane. Or conduct secret raids into the center of the foe's power. Fully scalable, fully compartmentalized, and on a single plane.
More than agreeing or disagreeing with anything from this post, it brought to mind a few things that I should clarify before I get too deep. Overall, I (likely) will go with a reduced magic campaign. This isn't to say that it will be completely medeival without wizards, dragons, and fireball spells - but that I plan to reduce the frequency of said things. When I run this world as a campaign, I'll likely ice out druids and sorcerers as PC classes. This comes up in relation to Devils/demons/and the like. Their appearances (as well as crap like the abyss and layers of hell) will have nearly nil impact. I've long been of the opinion that humans provide more than enough eeeeevil, and if I need something particularly awesome to rampage the countryside, then I have dragons for that.
From Casey:
About gods being only as powerful as their followers.
I think this is a good way to include something True in the game world. In real life a group of people can be completely powerless, or be a force of nature that changes the course of history forever. Which will turn out to be the case depends on the drive of those people. Are they motivated to act? Are they inspired? In the real world it does you no good to have 100 people if they're all content enough that they are not willing to fight for change.
In terms of the game world this translates nicely. You can illustrate this true aspect of humankind through an analogy using the religions. (And if your game has hidden messages like that, it's a good thing imo.) The gods are stronger based on their followers, yes. But it's not so much the number of followers, but the strength of their faith and their emotional devotion. 10 people who live for their religion (i.e. fanatics) should be much more influential than 20 people who believe but just live normal lives. It's good for a god to have such followers, but their passion for their faith is where the strength really comes from.
I think this makes sense if you backup and ask a more fundamental question: Why do the gods need strength (and therefore followers)? It's because in fantasy pantheons the gods are in opposition to one another. They are struggling to see who will dominate, and this is one of the basic assumptions in the cosmology. You can change that assumption and go a different way if you want (which has really interesting possibilities itself). But if you don't (and it sounds like you aren't), then it implies this answer to the question:
Gods need strength because they are in conflict with one another by their inherent nature. Therefore the strength that comes from their followers should be directly related to how that faith enables the fundamental goal of becoming more influential over the material world. This would explain why a culture that fights to spread its religion would have a strong god. It's almost by definiton.
But remember the analogy. In real life this causes an opposite reaction. Other cultures who may not have been "activists" may become a force to reckon with in response to a more imposing group. In the game this explains why a powerful god with a slew of crazed fanatics who want to take over the world does not simply become more and more powerful. It's not a closed system like a board game, where once I get a small advantage it just grows and grows. (And the only way the clearly superior bad guys lose is through a stupid, crushing mistake.) Instead it's like real life, where the fact that I become strong may be the exact catalyst that makes you strong enough to stop me. That's a HUGE difference in the underlying workings of the world.
The bottom line is that instead of modeling the cosmology after a fantasy game, work on ensuring that the mechanics of the cosmology are a model of the real world. You don't want them to function like units or armies in a game. You want them to function like people and cultures do in life. It brings to mind the way world events were explained in the Shadow series of Ender books, with India and China and the Muslims and the Hegemony.
Abso-FUCKING-lutely.
Also, from Casey:
I like the idea of toning down the planes, like with summonings pulling from other areas of the material plane. I'm biased because I've never found the planes interesting at all. Here's one way you could go that route:
The planes are not "alternate places" where the gods live. You don't travel there when you get a high enough level, and summoned creatures don't technically "come from" there. Instead they're more like idealized or Platonic forms that only exist as part of a specific god. So for instance, dead souls return to the god of their faith and become one with them (or whatever), but that doesn't have to imply a whole plane of existence (or even an actual place). Fantasy writers know the afterlife does not need to mimic material life in function, so why in form? Oneness with god after death may not be something analogous to material life at all.
On the other hand, the gods are what allow Law/Chaos (and Good/Evil if you include that) at all. Their very existence emanates such forces into the material world, and their fundamental purpose is to maximize that effect (as discussed above). So even though there's no Plane of Chaos that's the "source" of all chaos, there IS a god which serves the same purpose. When that god becomes stronger, more chaotic happenings are seen in the world. More chaotic creatures, spells, even weather. Go with what you like. But remember that this does not cause a snowball effect leading to domination by one god. It's more likely to cause a backlash that ultimately adds up to balance as the teeter totter sways to and fro over the eons (again like real life). The 3 gods are really part of one whole, and that should mean something. Otherwise rewrite the cosmology so they don't come from one parent. (If you want it to be possible for a god to ultimately defeat another one, it should be the main plot of the entire game that culminates in either preserving balance even though you lose the chance to "win", or culminates in discovering what happens when that balance is lost. It may not be what the players think would happen...)
Based on all the feedback so far, I think I'm going to cruise ahead with what I have so far, in an "in the beginning" sort of way. I should note that I intent to make this a "most commonly accepted" version of the creation myth, which leaves me both the options of turning it upside down at my option, as well as allowing players to add to it at will:
The universe started with the Primordial (a relatively unidentifiable presence, implied to be both vastly ancient, and primal).
As a being of omnipotence (although not omniscient), it splintered itself into 3 lesser gods, in an effort to both better understand it's own condition and to provide itself with some other beings with which to communicate. Due to its splintering, the Primordial was rendered no longer omnipotent.
The 3 lesser gods, the Shaper (law), the Spirit (Neutrality), and the Destroyer (Chaos) were then gifted by the primordial with the material plane (as opposed to the Astral Plane, from which they originated).
It is from these 3 gods that the (many) lesser Gods were formed, as well as the 3 Immortal races.
Which will bring us to the next topic...
From Raptor:
The role of the planes in D&D is to allow for a format that could significantly change the rules without altering the basic set of rules that everything and everyone must abide by (the prime material plane). By level 12 or so, you are getting bored of the rules and need to change things up a little. If a croup walks into the room and fireballs out the bad guys, in order to force them out of the box, you take them to a place where fireball doesn't work. If you want to have unspeakably powerful and evil villains that just show up without having to deal with the fact that they would completely unbalance the PMP just by being on it, you can do that. For instance, if all powerful devils and demons exist, why haven't they eradicated the PMP? Answer: they are too busy being at war with each other. It's contained. A conflict that big in the PMP would be world changing, but with planes, you can take and leave it in adventure sized pieces.
Again though this is the function of zones. If these magical beings are anchored to a thing in a place, they can coexist in the pmp without affecting it too much. If all devils are linked to the Court Stone of Evil, and moving too far away from it's influence weakens them to the point that the lesser gods will pick them off easily, they are also containable, even with epic power levels.
In a play scenario, it gives the storyteller/DM a lot of flexibility to scale the power level of the usually extraplanar foes, because by placing the foe closer or further from their power source, they can be more powerful or less powerful as the party power demands, and the foe can be scaled up merely by moving them further into their zone. This is better, I think that merely having planes because it's not an all or nothing "you're playing in their back yard, so they rule, or your back yard so you rule" situation.
Picture an adventure for a level 7 party. You go into a small town and uncover a Devil trading the local townsfolk as slaves. The party fights him in a weakened state, and relatively easily drives him off. They pursue, and he gets closer to his zone, and gains power. They fight him again, and he's much tougher. They drive him off again, soon he's well within his zone, and more powerful than the party. The party realizes that in order to fight the foes, they have to think about not just how to fight, but also choosing the battleground as well. You can also make the zones of power have distorting effects on magic, or divine spellcasting. The key is to maintain the flexibility without having to enforce hard and fast planar rules all the time.
For your epic world events, one side could attack the center of power for another side to attempt to wipe them from the plane. Or conduct secret raids into the center of the foe's power. Fully scalable, fully compartmentalized, and on a single plane.
More than agreeing or disagreeing with anything from this post, it brought to mind a few things that I should clarify before I get too deep. Overall, I (likely) will go with a reduced magic campaign. This isn't to say that it will be completely medeival without wizards, dragons, and fireball spells - but that I plan to reduce the frequency of said things. When I run this world as a campaign, I'll likely ice out druids and sorcerers as PC classes. This comes up in relation to Devils/demons/and the like. Their appearances (as well as crap like the abyss and layers of hell) will have nearly nil impact. I've long been of the opinion that humans provide more than enough eeeeevil, and if I need something particularly awesome to rampage the countryside, then I have dragons for that.
From Casey:
About gods being only as powerful as their followers.
I think this is a good way to include something True in the game world. In real life a group of people can be completely powerless, or be a force of nature that changes the course of history forever. Which will turn out to be the case depends on the drive of those people. Are they motivated to act? Are they inspired? In the real world it does you no good to have 100 people if they're all content enough that they are not willing to fight for change.
In terms of the game world this translates nicely. You can illustrate this true aspect of humankind through an analogy using the religions. (And if your game has hidden messages like that, it's a good thing imo.) The gods are stronger based on their followers, yes. But it's not so much the number of followers, but the strength of their faith and their emotional devotion. 10 people who live for their religion (i.e. fanatics) should be much more influential than 20 people who believe but just live normal lives. It's good for a god to have such followers, but their passion for their faith is where the strength really comes from.
I think this makes sense if you backup and ask a more fundamental question: Why do the gods need strength (and therefore followers)? It's because in fantasy pantheons the gods are in opposition to one another. They are struggling to see who will dominate, and this is one of the basic assumptions in the cosmology. You can change that assumption and go a different way if you want (which has really interesting possibilities itself). But if you don't (and it sounds like you aren't), then it implies this answer to the question:
Gods need strength because they are in conflict with one another by their inherent nature. Therefore the strength that comes from their followers should be directly related to how that faith enables the fundamental goal of becoming more influential over the material world. This would explain why a culture that fights to spread its religion would have a strong god. It's almost by definiton.
But remember the analogy. In real life this causes an opposite reaction. Other cultures who may not have been "activists" may become a force to reckon with in response to a more imposing group. In the game this explains why a powerful god with a slew of crazed fanatics who want to take over the world does not simply become more and more powerful. It's not a closed system like a board game, where once I get a small advantage it just grows and grows. (And the only way the clearly superior bad guys lose is through a stupid, crushing mistake.) Instead it's like real life, where the fact that I become strong may be the exact catalyst that makes you strong enough to stop me. That's a HUGE difference in the underlying workings of the world.
The bottom line is that instead of modeling the cosmology after a fantasy game, work on ensuring that the mechanics of the cosmology are a model of the real world. You don't want them to function like units or armies in a game. You want them to function like people and cultures do in life. It brings to mind the way world events were explained in the Shadow series of Ender books, with India and China and the Muslims and the Hegemony.
Abso-FUCKING-lutely.
Also, from Casey:
I like the idea of toning down the planes, like with summonings pulling from other areas of the material plane. I'm biased because I've never found the planes interesting at all. Here's one way you could go that route:
The planes are not "alternate places" where the gods live. You don't travel there when you get a high enough level, and summoned creatures don't technically "come from" there. Instead they're more like idealized or Platonic forms that only exist as part of a specific god. So for instance, dead souls return to the god of their faith and become one with them (or whatever), but that doesn't have to imply a whole plane of existence (or even an actual place). Fantasy writers know the afterlife does not need to mimic material life in function, so why in form? Oneness with god after death may not be something analogous to material life at all.
On the other hand, the gods are what allow Law/Chaos (and Good/Evil if you include that) at all. Their very existence emanates such forces into the material world, and their fundamental purpose is to maximize that effect (as discussed above). So even though there's no Plane of Chaos that's the "source" of all chaos, there IS a god which serves the same purpose. When that god becomes stronger, more chaotic happenings are seen in the world. More chaotic creatures, spells, even weather. Go with what you like. But remember that this does not cause a snowball effect leading to domination by one god. It's more likely to cause a backlash that ultimately adds up to balance as the teeter totter sways to and fro over the eons (again like real life). The 3 gods are really part of one whole, and that should mean something. Otherwise rewrite the cosmology so they don't come from one parent. (If you want it to be possible for a god to ultimately defeat another one, it should be the main plot of the entire game that culminates in either preserving balance even though you lose the chance to "win", or culminates in discovering what happens when that balance is lost. It may not be what the players think would happen...)
Based on all the feedback so far, I think I'm going to cruise ahead with what I have so far, in an "in the beginning" sort of way. I should note that I intent to make this a "most commonly accepted" version of the creation myth, which leaves me both the options of turning it upside down at my option, as well as allowing players to add to it at will:
The universe started with the Primordial (a relatively unidentifiable presence, implied to be both vastly ancient, and primal).
As a being of omnipotence (although not omniscient), it splintered itself into 3 lesser gods, in an effort to both better understand it's own condition and to provide itself with some other beings with which to communicate. Due to its splintering, the Primordial was rendered no longer omnipotent.
The 3 lesser gods, the Shaper (law), the Spirit (Neutrality), and the Destroyer (Chaos) were then gifted by the primordial with the material plane (as opposed to the Astral Plane, from which they originated).
It is from these 3 gods that the (many) lesser Gods were formed, as well as the 3 Immortal races.
Which will bring us to the next topic...
Sunday, April 4, 2010
Some Feedback
I've gotten some good (quality, not quantity) feedback so far at other locations, so I figured I'd put it here both for the purpose of consolidating thoughts as well as sharing it with others who may agree/disagree.
Firstly:
From me:
Most of this I love. Problem being, how many elements can you have? 5? Maybe 6 on a good stretch? That makes maybe 8-9 races at the start (currently Gith, Elodrian, Minotaurs, Humans, Dwarves, Salandross (lizardmen), Elves, and Orcs). Where do the rest come from? What idiot god would come along later and just randomly create halflings? There are obviously some kinks to work out here.
And the return commentary:
Evolution and perversion will help you determine some of the different races. Lizardmen, Minotaurs, halflings, or Centaurs may all be born from some god's luring of an animal or human to mate with. Also a yeti or bigfoot are just environmental differences evolved from the common troll. So you start with your 6 races but the gods and the environment create sub-races that have been given their own race over time. You go from 6 to 12 to 24 and so on pretty quickly that way.
Absolutely agree. I think the main crux of the issue here is to determine what the original races were, with which to provide the derivatives. This past game, I used 3 originals: The Minotaurs (creatures of untamed nature), the Elodrian (creatures of law - ancestors to elves, dark elves, etc), and the Gith (cribbed from the Githyanki - with muscles and bigger teeth) creatures of chaos and destruction. While I like those pretty well - I'd like to hold off on changing anything until this cosmology is redefined.
Again, with me:
There are a couple of things I'm set on:
1. It appeals to me, the idea that a God is only as powerful as his followers. Well-known Gods can squash forgotten Gods, and gives reason to the spreading of religion. However, I can't think of a mechanic to settle this: "My super-YouTube-God-of-Infamy casts a level 8 spell of BlowShitUp that cancels out your weak-ass-2member-blog-god's spell of BlowShitUp and proceeds to kick your ass!" Just doesn't work right.
And the feedback:
Your trick here is finding a way to balance the Pros and Cons. "Super god" might eventually offer more power but he also has thousands of followers garnering for his attention. It will take a cleric much longer to level up as a member of that god's house. His prayers are less likely to be answered unless it directly serves his god's interests.
On the other hand "Joe Schmoe god" might not have unlimited powers, but he also has less followers. So a upstanding member of his church might be given greater rewards more quickly. For gaming purposes this might mean magical weapons or tools.
This will balance out as players make their decisions and character choices for which deity they may or may not choose to serve. Serve "Super god" and you may have the power of a tidal wave when you need it most. Serve "JoeSchmoe god" and you may have a magic hammer capable of detecting rubies, but never able to over power a Super tidal wave. Also, turn down the wrong deity or offend them in some way and you may also suffer their wrath. This means the characters will be more likely to obtain their quest item from "JoeSchmoe god's" temple and might not from "Super god's".
I really, really like this idea. Of course, it requires me to stay on top of my God's a little more, but it provides for a) better storytelling, and b) it allows me to constantly shake up the pantheon, and keep the player's guessing as to real vs. false religions.
Lastly:
On the planes - I agree that summoning can come from the same plane. Kind of like the elemental was hanging out at the elemental bar, and got pulled into the fight at your summons. If you need to keep them separated for some reason, put them into "zones" on the prime material plane (The great volcano, the deepest trench in the sea, the place where the wind starts) that the elementals/animals/outsiders can't leave without weakening themselves. They'll generally stay in that place unless forced out or summoned, and will go back to that place when they can. (The ones you might find elsewhere may have been banished, or couldn't find their way home after a summoning.)
If you need alternate planes, but don't want them - try using alternate dimensions, where everything is exactly the same as the prime material plane, and the same pantheon has sway, but instead a particular plane element has control. So say you are lawful good, there might be a chaotic evil version of you in another dimension and that might be where you summon a particular thing from.
I guess this moves me to the question of what the purpose of a plane should be? Last time around, a large foundation of my (weak) cosmology was that other planar creatures coveted the material plane. This implies that first, the material plane has things to covet, and second, that the other planes inherently suck, even for creatures that inherently inhabit them. Bleh. As players, what would you want to see in a planar structure? Should I simply go material and astral and leave it at that?
Firstly:
From me:
Most of this I love. Problem being, how many elements can you have? 5? Maybe 6 on a good stretch? That makes maybe 8-9 races at the start (currently Gith, Elodrian, Minotaurs, Humans, Dwarves, Salandross (lizardmen), Elves, and Orcs). Where do the rest come from? What idiot god would come along later and just randomly create halflings? There are obviously some kinks to work out here.
And the return commentary:
Evolution and perversion will help you determine some of the different races. Lizardmen, Minotaurs, halflings, or Centaurs may all be born from some god's luring of an animal or human to mate with. Also a yeti or bigfoot are just environmental differences evolved from the common troll. So you start with your 6 races but the gods and the environment create sub-races that have been given their own race over time. You go from 6 to 12 to 24 and so on pretty quickly that way.
Absolutely agree. I think the main crux of the issue here is to determine what the original races were, with which to provide the derivatives. This past game, I used 3 originals: The Minotaurs (creatures of untamed nature), the Elodrian (creatures of law - ancestors to elves, dark elves, etc), and the Gith (cribbed from the Githyanki - with muscles and bigger teeth) creatures of chaos and destruction. While I like those pretty well - I'd like to hold off on changing anything until this cosmology is redefined.
Again, with me:
There are a couple of things I'm set on:
1. It appeals to me, the idea that a God is only as powerful as his followers. Well-known Gods can squash forgotten Gods, and gives reason to the spreading of religion. However, I can't think of a mechanic to settle this: "My super-YouTube-God-of-Infamy casts a level 8 spell of BlowShitUp that cancels out your weak-ass-2member-blog-god's spell of BlowShitUp and proceeds to kick your ass!" Just doesn't work right.
And the feedback:
Your trick here is finding a way to balance the Pros and Cons. "Super god" might eventually offer more power but he also has thousands of followers garnering for his attention. It will take a cleric much longer to level up as a member of that god's house. His prayers are less likely to be answered unless it directly serves his god's interests.
On the other hand "Joe Schmoe god" might not have unlimited powers, but he also has less followers. So a upstanding member of his church might be given greater rewards more quickly. For gaming purposes this might mean magical weapons or tools.
This will balance out as players make their decisions and character choices for which deity they may or may not choose to serve. Serve "Super god" and you may have the power of a tidal wave when you need it most. Serve "JoeSchmoe god" and you may have a magic hammer capable of detecting rubies, but never able to over power a Super tidal wave. Also, turn down the wrong deity or offend them in some way and you may also suffer their wrath. This means the characters will be more likely to obtain their quest item from "JoeSchmoe god's" temple and might not from "Super god's".
I really, really like this idea. Of course, it requires me to stay on top of my God's a little more, but it provides for a) better storytelling, and b) it allows me to constantly shake up the pantheon, and keep the player's guessing as to real vs. false religions.
Lastly:
On the planes - I agree that summoning can come from the same plane. Kind of like the elemental was hanging out at the elemental bar, and got pulled into the fight at your summons. If you need to keep them separated for some reason, put them into "zones" on the prime material plane (The great volcano, the deepest trench in the sea, the place where the wind starts) that the elementals/animals/outsiders can't leave without weakening themselves. They'll generally stay in that place unless forced out or summoned, and will go back to that place when they can. (The ones you might find elsewhere may have been banished, or couldn't find their way home after a summoning.)
If you need alternate planes, but don't want them - try using alternate dimensions, where everything is exactly the same as the prime material plane, and the same pantheon has sway, but instead a particular plane element has control. So say you are lawful good, there might be a chaotic evil version of you in another dimension and that might be where you summon a particular thing from.
I guess this moves me to the question of what the purpose of a plane should be? Last time around, a large foundation of my (weak) cosmology was that other planar creatures coveted the material plane. This implies that first, the material plane has things to covet, and second, that the other planes inherently suck, even for creatures that inherently inhabit them. Bleh. As players, what would you want to see in a planar structure? Should I simply go material and astral and leave it at that?
Monday, March 29, 2010
Cosmology
Ok, I'm going to back peddle a bit. 2 things occurred to me as a re-read what came from my mind last night:
1. I should give you a better idea of what I have already used before. While I'm not opposed to changing things at all, I think it helps to give a better insight into the kinds of things I'm going for thematically. Also, the less I change about my home-brewed D&D world, the easier the creation process will be.
2. I really should get basic, basic. And much to my chagrin, that means figuring out the cosmology of my new gaming world.
What has gone before:
In the latest iteration, my D&D world originated from 3 primary gods, hereby referred to as the Shaper (law), the Spirit (neutrality), and the Destroyer (chaos). Each of the 3 gods was borne from an greater god simply referred to as the Primordial.
Each of the 3 lesser gods went on to create their own respective plane. The Shaper made the spirit plane of law-stuff, the Spirit made the bountiful material plane, and the Destroyer made the land of the dead spirits, the shadow plane.
Later, the gods beget smaller gods, which explains away the standard D&D type pantheon. Also, the 3 gods each created 1 immortal race (each, meant to represent their ideals). Eventually, the Primordial saw all this cool shit occurring without his consent, and decided, as greater gods do, to Fuck Shit Up. He created the Titans (especially skilled at Fucking Shit Up), and lesser races to serve them, all elementally aligned (both Titans and servitors).
blahblahblahwarhappens. Eventually, the Primordial loses. The 3 major gods are rendered inert. The servitor races switched sides and help the 3 immortal races put the Titans to sleep.
Most of this I love. Problem being, how many elements can you have? 5? Maybe 6 on a good stretch? That makes maybe 8-9 races at the start (currently Gith, Elodrian, Minotaurs, Humans, Dwarves, Salandross (lizardmen), Elves, and Orcs). Where do the rest come from? What idiot god would come along later and just randomly create halflings? There are obviously some kinks to work out here.
As far as the planes go, I hate planes. They take a gargantuan undertaking of designing a world, and effectively multiply your effort level times a bajillion.
Not to mention, I have only determined 3 good reasons for the planes existing.
1. Plane the gods came from before the 3 planes existed, now used to hide out in and have tea and crumpets.
2. Summoned monsters HAVE to come from somewhere (unless they dissapear elsewhere on the material plane. Hmmmm.)
3. A place for dead souls to go.
Other than that, they generally invite headaches. I largely ignore demons, devils, angels, archons, etc in my game (preferring a much more cthulhu-like summoned Stuff), but I also still like the idea to a point of gods and religion. Heck, I think it's good fantasy when towns have little meek patron gods and shit. It's tempting however to toss out gods, planes, and clerics altogether just to avoid this mess. The standard D&D pantheon doesn't do it for me, and although I'm tempted to go all Song of Ice and Fire with dozens of unrelated pantheons and Gods - that would be a sheer nightmare when the rules come into play.
There are a couple of things I'm set on:
1. It appeals to me, the idea that a God is only as powerful as his followers. Well-known Gods can squash forgotten Gods, and gives reason to the spreading of religion. However, I can't think of a mechanic to settle this: "My super-YouTube-God-of-Infamy casts a level 8 spell of Blow-Shit-Up that cancels out your weak-ass-2member-blog-god's spell of Blow-Shit-Up and proceeds to kick your ass!" Just doesn't work right.
2. Planes should be minimal, and have purpose. I may need more than 3 as mentioned above, or less. But it has to make sense, and has to work within the rules framework of the game. "You wasted time preparing astral projection. Idiot"
Try not to worry about races for now, unless they're integral to the Gods and planes, other than the fact that I appreciate seeds that allow their numbers and presence to make more sense than the acquiring of a new Monster Manual. "What do you mean there were Wemic here this whole time? We've been wandering this valley for YEARS!"
Help me out.
1. I should give you a better idea of what I have already used before. While I'm not opposed to changing things at all, I think it helps to give a better insight into the kinds of things I'm going for thematically. Also, the less I change about my home-brewed D&D world, the easier the creation process will be.
2. I really should get basic, basic. And much to my chagrin, that means figuring out the cosmology of my new gaming world.
What has gone before:
In the latest iteration, my D&D world originated from 3 primary gods, hereby referred to as the Shaper (law), the Spirit (neutrality), and the Destroyer (chaos). Each of the 3 gods was borne from an greater god simply referred to as the Primordial.
Each of the 3 lesser gods went on to create their own respective plane. The Shaper made the spirit plane of law-stuff, the Spirit made the bountiful material plane, and the Destroyer made the land of the dead spirits, the shadow plane.
Later, the gods beget smaller gods, which explains away the standard D&D type pantheon. Also, the 3 gods each created 1 immortal race (each, meant to represent their ideals). Eventually, the Primordial saw all this cool shit occurring without his consent, and decided, as greater gods do, to Fuck Shit Up. He created the Titans (especially skilled at Fucking Shit Up), and lesser races to serve them, all elementally aligned (both Titans and servitors).
blahblahblahwarhappens. Eventually, the Primordial loses. The 3 major gods are rendered inert. The servitor races switched sides and help the 3 immortal races put the Titans to sleep.
Most of this I love. Problem being, how many elements can you have? 5? Maybe 6 on a good stretch? That makes maybe 8-9 races at the start (currently Gith, Elodrian, Minotaurs, Humans, Dwarves, Salandross (lizardmen), Elves, and Orcs). Where do the rest come from? What idiot god would come along later and just randomly create halflings? There are obviously some kinks to work out here.
As far as the planes go, I hate planes. They take a gargantuan undertaking of designing a world, and effectively multiply your effort level times a bajillion.
Not to mention, I have only determined 3 good reasons for the planes existing.
1. Plane the gods came from before the 3 planes existed, now used to hide out in and have tea and crumpets.
2. Summoned monsters HAVE to come from somewhere (unless they dissapear elsewhere on the material plane. Hmmmm.)
3. A place for dead souls to go.
Other than that, they generally invite headaches. I largely ignore demons, devils, angels, archons, etc in my game (preferring a much more cthulhu-like summoned Stuff), but I also still like the idea to a point of gods and religion. Heck, I think it's good fantasy when towns have little meek patron gods and shit. It's tempting however to toss out gods, planes, and clerics altogether just to avoid this mess. The standard D&D pantheon doesn't do it for me, and although I'm tempted to go all Song of Ice and Fire with dozens of unrelated pantheons and Gods - that would be a sheer nightmare when the rules come into play.
There are a couple of things I'm set on:
1. It appeals to me, the idea that a God is only as powerful as his followers. Well-known Gods can squash forgotten Gods, and gives reason to the spreading of religion. However, I can't think of a mechanic to settle this: "My super-YouTube-God-of-Infamy casts a level 8 spell of Blow-Shit-Up that cancels out your weak-ass-2member-blog-god's spell of Blow-Shit-Up and proceeds to kick your ass!" Just doesn't work right.
2. Planes should be minimal, and have purpose. I may need more than 3 as mentioned above, or less. But it has to make sense, and has to work within the rules framework of the game. "You wasted time preparing astral projection. Idiot"
Try not to worry about races for now, unless they're integral to the Gods and planes, other than the fact that I appreciate seeds that allow their numbers and presence to make more sense than the acquiring of a new Monster Manual. "What do you mean there were Wemic here this whole time? We've been wandering this valley for YEARS!"
Help me out.
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